Saturday, January 3, 2009

THE TWO REASONS WHY OBAMA WILL NEITHER PUBLICLY SPEAK ABOUT WHERE HE WAS BORN NOR PRODUCE HIS ORIGINAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE

Statements have been made in the public domain that if Obama was not born in Hawaii but rather in Kenya, that he actually committed a crime involving fraud. That leads me to think that if that were true, then Obama has a Constitutional and state common law right to avoid further self-incrimination and to remain silent. That could explain why he has neither talked publicly nor wants to talk in any court of law about where he was born. But his right to remain silent would not extend to withholding his original Certificate of Live Birth. Disclosure of documents is not testimonial (coming from a person's mouth) and his 5th Amendment and state common law right to remain silent and to not incriminate himself would not prevent such disclosure. This leads me to the main point.

Obama at present finds himself in a trilemma: (1) Does he state publicly that he was born in Hawaii if he knows he was not and thereby "perjure" himself in the court of public opinion should the truth be eventually discovered? If he so swore under oath before Congress or any court of law, it would be actual perjury. (2) Will he produce his original birth certificate which may show and will he tell the public the truth that he was not born in Hawaii but rather Kenya and thereby betray his natural instinct of self-preservation and his life-long ambition to be President of the United States? or (3) Does he remain silent as to where he was born and continue to refuse to release his original birth certificate and thereby earn the contempt of those in the public who believe that he has not convincingly proven that he is a "natural born Citizen" and eligible to be President? I submit that Obama has made the third choice.

The consequences for Obama are the least drastic and he gains the most benefits under the choice involving remaining silent and not producing his original birth certificate which is exactly what he has done to date. There are at least two reasons for this:

(1) To date, no court of law has been willing to accept any case challenging his "natural born Citizen" status. The courts have dismissed law suits against him for reasons of jurisdiction, standing, political question, justiciability, and for reasons unknown. These procedural obstacles have allowed him to escape having to defend the underlying merits of the claims against him which would necessarily involve his having to make declarations under oath as part of legal discovery and before the court itself in case of a trial. He will simply continue to pursue this procedural strategy, for being so successful will allow him to maintain his silence and not produce his original birth certificate with the cost to him personally of only having to pay his team of lawyers. This strategy explains why he is willing to spend enormous amounts of his own money and resources for his legal defense (maybe not even his own money if he can make a case that he can use his campaign contributions to meet the costs involved) and cause private individual plaintiffs and public institutions (courts and public entity defendants) to spend theirs with no end in sight. This strategy also provides great impetus to the sales of his past and future books, thereby further filling up his coffers. This strategy also explains why he is not willing to simply spend less than $100.00 and produce his original birth certificate for the benefit of those Americans who want to see it. Lastly, this strategy provides an answer to the question of, assuming that Obama in the end simply produces his original birth certificate which shows he was born in Hawaii, why would Obama risk the public then perceiving him as one who played a dirty little game for the sake of aggrandizing his own image and increasing his profits.

(2) Obama wants (i) people who simply voted for him, (ii) people who are apathetic to the eligibility issue or because of ignorance, fear, or self-ambition refuse to address it; and (iii) people who in good faith believe he is eligible to be President (these categories may overlap), to believe that all the law suits and internet chatter questioning eligibility to be President is political sour grapes, racism, or "tinfoil hat" conspiracy nonsense. These "explanations" for this outcry against him provide great camouflage for his silence and refusal to release his original birth certificate. This strategy limits any contempt backlash to only those who oppose him on the eligibility issue and to no one else, thereby greatly reducing the price associated with the public contempt component.

The benefits Obama gains from stonewalling compared to the price he has to pay for complete disclosure makes the choice to refuse to speak about where he was born and to produce his original birth certificate most attractive for Obama. The stakes are high in this game for the Office of President. Obama has shown that he has the arrogance and audacity to play the game any which way he wants simply to win that Office and greatly profit thereby. The question for many concerned Americans who doubt whether he is eligible to be President is what they can do to get the nation’s political, legal, and social institutions to adequately and honestly investigate and decide whether he is indeed qualified to be President. Obama’s strategy is now preventing these Americans from learning the truth about whether he is eligible to be President. The ball is in the court of those who challenge Him.

© Mario Apuzzo, Esq.

Jamesburg, New Jersey

57 comments:

Kay said...

Thank you for this cogent discourse on the Obama ineligibility question. Although I personally have had nothing to lose by being thought of as a "tin-hatter", it is encouraging to note that intelligent, Constitutionally minded individuals such as yourself are following this developing issue and providing the rest of us with these insights.

Anonymous said...

HAHAHAHAHAHA That's it. I am opening the tinfoil concession.

Puzo1 said...

To Anonymous HAHAHAHAHAHA:

If you would have read my article carefully, you would know that your portrait may be found in Reason No. 2. You see, I've got you covered. Enjoy!

Mario Apuzzo, Esq.

Brian H said...

His stonewall strategy is a flat-out challenge to any and all to try and block him. The worrying thing is, that he is an inveterate cautious coward when it comes to actual challenges, and does whatever it takes to make sure the "Fix is In". It looks very much like the election was handled that way, as all of his previous ones were.

It is urgent that the nature of the Fix be determined, so it may be unraveled.

wodiej said...

excellent analysis. Much less serious controversies have been unveiled and I surmise this one will come to light eventually. Obama has committed such a serious offense, that the consequences will equal it-one way or another.

Anonymous said...

we have, unfortunately, come to the point in our country where the self-centered have come to outnumber those who seek the truth and believe in the rule of law. Should o, and his cronies, get away with this farce his appointments and executive order powers alone will change the country for generations if not forever. I have little faith in the elected political opposition considering their displayed silence, there seems to be not one single elected official willing to speak out in the name of patriotism. Sad time for the country.

Anonymous said...

search for ann d obama port of entry document to see if there is a record of Obamas entry to Hawaii from Kenya.
james johnson

Anonymous said...

How can our court system be so closed minded. Their job is to protect us and they get an F for that. Many things other than citizenship have been brought out or proven and nothing ever happens. Contributions are a major problem and should be shared with Americans via national TV. What about a security clearance system check of who Obama really is. If you work for the gov, military or private co. that deals with national security requires an FBI clearance. What clearance has been done on Obama. Keep in mind that Obama will have access to world security matters and no one knows who he is. Let him fill out his 63 page employeement application and see if he fills in all the blanks. It's a shame since any American could write page after page on Obama. In closing I think the Supreme court should require all secretaries of state and the election board as well as congress should be required to verify who Obama really is to be president. Let them sign a statement of fact on grounds of perjury that Obama has officially been vetted. Keep in mind their are additional requirements to be presidet as those required to be a senator.

Anonymous said...

Dr.King a Republican is turning over in his grave. A legacy being lost. Everything he fought for, equal rights, social justice will all be lost on Jan 20th. Even our own Supreme Court Justices refuse to enforce the law of the land. They are helping to build the structure of the new society within the shell of the old. There is a greater political agenda behind all of this. Not even the opposing political party has said anything.

Anonymous said...

makes you wonder; who really rules???

Screamin Eagle said...

A CHALLENGE & NEW YEARS RESOLUTION ~ ALL CONCERNED AMERICANS PLEASE READ & FORWARD TO ALL

***AMERICA NEEDS EACH & EVERYONE of OUR HELP ~ it is OUR DUTY to PROTECT OUR CONSTITUTION ~ WE MUST STAND NOW PEACEFULLY or FIGHT LATER ~ BUT… it will take WE THE PEOPLE (ALL OF US ~ DON’T ASSUME EVERYONE ELSE is DOING THEIR PART) for it to WORK ~ for CHANGE WE THE PEOPLE can SURVIVE ~ PLEASE take a MOMENT to READ & REPOST ANY & EVERY WHERE***

To the VERY PASSIONATE and GOD LOVING ~ CONCERNED CITIZENS and PATRIOTS of THIS GREAT COUNTRY!!! LAND of the FREE ~ HOME of the BRAVE!!! REMEMBER ~ Phil 4:13

THANK YOU for ALL of the HARD WORK YOU have been doing (email ~ mail ~ phone ~ blogs ~ websites ~ copy & paste ~ forward etc…) that is all GREAT ~ I’m sure it does help ~ HOWEVER it is HIDDEN from WE THE PEOPLE ~ WE MUST UNITE TOGETHER & NETWORK ~ THOSE of US who have LOOKED into the VERY LITTLE info from NOBAMAS PAST ~ have EVERY REASON to be CONCERNED for OUR FUTURE ~ OUR CHILDRENS FUTURE ~ THIS ALL of US KNOW because WE are INFORMED and have NOT been put under the MEDIA INDUCED TRANCE. AS I said before THANK YOU ~ WE ARE SLOWLY gaining ground ~ there are MILLIONS of CONCERNED CITIZENS just like YOU & ME ~ AROUND the WORLD ~ WE MUST REACH THEM ~ THEN with THOSE kind of #’S ~ WE THE PEOPLE WILL be HEARD & SEEN.

I CHALLENGE EACH & EVERY ONE of YOU ~ TO TAKE 2 DAYS FROM BLOGGING ~ FORWARDING ~ EMAILING ~ ETC… and READ THIS and FORWARD ~ NETWORK & UNITE ~ WE MUST if WE WANT CHANGE AMERICA can SURVIVE. DON”T ASSUME EVERYONE ELSE is DOING THEIR PART ~ WE ALL MUST DO THIS if WE THE PEOPLE is to be HEARD.

CREATIVE NETWORKING and WHO WE NEED TO REACH
1 ~ VETERANS GROUPS ~ VFW ~ MILITARY HISTORY @ WEST POINT ~ PENTAGON
2 ~ LOCAL NEWSPAPERS ~ BLOG ~ WRITE LETTERS TO EDITORS ~ LEAVE COMMENTS
3 ~ CHRISTIAN LEADERS AND PLACES OF WORSHIP
4 ~ HANNITY ~ RUSH ~ BOORTZ ~ LAURA ~ BECK ~ FOX NEWS (MILLIONS OF FANS) GO IN TEAMSTO THEIR SITES AND LET THEM KNOW WE ARE HERE
5 ~ CONTACT ALL COUNTRY STARS (NOT TOBY KEITH ~ HE ENDORSED NOBAMA ~ CANYOU BELIEVE THAT?) ACTORS ~ CHUCK NORRIS ~ CLINT EASTWOOD ~ AND GET THEMTO HELP STAND UP WITH US ~ THERE ARE MILLIONS OF US
6 ~ IF WE NETWORK CORRECTLY THE 6TH DEGREE TAKES EFFECT ~ IF WE HAVE A MILLIONPATRIOTS THAT SEND OUT REQUESTS TO 10 OTHER AMERICANS ASKING TO JOIN ~ WE WILL HAVE PATRIOTS ALL ACROSS THIS GREAT LAND OF OURS
WE MUST THINK OUTSIDE the BOX ~ UNITE ~ NETWORK ~ WE CAN NOT TALK ABOUT IT ~ WE MUST BE ABOUT IT

AN OLD FRIEND SAYS THERE ARE 3 KINDS OF PEOPLE IN THE WORLD ~ THOSE THAT MAKE THINGS HAPPEN ~ THOSE THAT WATCH THINGS HAPPEN & THOSE THAT SAY ~ HEY WHAT HAPPENED ~ WHICH ARE YOU?

OK HERE IS “THE PLAN” ~ ROUGH DRAFT ~ BUT IS AS SIMPLE AND EFFECTIVE AS FOLLOWS
The KEYS to FORCING THE ONE to ANSWER the MOST IMPORTANT questions OUR COUNTRY has EVER had to ask ~ EXPOSE the MEDIA ~ WAKE the MASSES from THEIR MEDIA INDUCED TRANCE ~~ is for OUR VETERANS and MILLIONS of GOD LOVING PATRIOTS standing up on MAIN STREETS ACROSS this GREAT NATION ~~ in EVERY TOWN and CITY ~ DEMANDING ANSWERS. OBAMA YOU do NOT represent what THIS GREAT COUNTRY is about ~~ SO FAR YOU ARE a SCAM ~~ WE did NOT BLEED ~ FIGHT and DIE for the FREEDOMS YOU WISH to DESTROY ~~ YOU WANT to be OUR Leader? Show the Paperwork and PROVE WHO YOU ARE ~~ PROVE US WRONG!!!

WE NEED TO DO THIS THE WEEKEND of the 10TH – 11TH and the FOLLOWING WEEKEND ~ THE FINAL WEEKEND BEFORE THE ONE TAKES CONTROL if WE THE PEOPLE DON”T STAND UP and STOP HIM ~ IF YOU LOOK AT IT ~ THIS IS THE ONLY WAY TO BE HEARD ~ NOT EVERYONE CAN MAKE IT TO DC ~ EVERYONE CAN MAKE IT TO TOWN
THANK YOU for YOUR TIME & HELP ~ WE HAVE DONE OUR HOMEWORK ~ WE KNOW WHAT IS COMING ~ WE MUST UNITE & NETWORK ~ NOBAMA has MILLIONS of TEXT #’s ~ THERE ARE MILLIONS OF US OUT THERE ~ WE MUST REACH THEM ~ ONCE WE HAVE NUMBERS ~ WE CAN BE SEEN & HEARD ~ NOT UNTIL THEN.

Phil 4:13
Screamin Eagle

***HELP AMERICA HEAR HER EAGLE SCREAM***

~ GOD BLESS (NOT D@MN) AMERICA ~ OUR TROOPS ~ YOU AND YOURS ~

screamineagle@bellsouth.net ~ operationscreamineagle@gmail.com ~ EMAIL ~ NO “g” on screamin

http://operationscreamineagle.ning.com/ ~ website

http://operationscreamineagle.ning.com/group/screamineaglesthoughtsandideaspleasejoin ~ please join and VIEW ALL DISCUSSIONS

IF YOU HAVE ANY TECH/SOCIAL COMMUNICATION EN MASS ~ PLEASE CONTACT ME ~ I HAVE THE IDEAS WE NEED ~ ONLY USED COMPUTER FOR WORK LAST FEW YEARS ~ BE A PART OF SAVING OUR COUNTRY ~ ONCE WE HAVE THE NUMBERS BEHIND US WE CAN EDUCATE THE MASSES ~ ANY and ALL SUGGESTIONS and HELP APPRECIATED ~ PLEASE REVISE and FORWARD and REPOST ~ WE MUST BE CREATIVE. THANK YOU FOR YOUR LOVE FOR OUR COUNTRY ~ FREEDOMS and RIGHTS. LET’S DO THIS then go back to BLOGGING and ALL THAT ~ IF WE THE PEOPLE WAIT for the SUPREME COURT IT MAY BE TO LATE.

Anonymous said...

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn227/Polarik/BO_Birth_Certificate.jpg

Anonymous said...

Anonymous, what is posted on photobuckuet.com is not a birth certificate; that is a Certification of Live Birth. The two are not the same. Tell me, looking at your own birth certificate; is your father listed as "American"? What race is "African"? I realize factcheck.org and fightthesmears.com call this a birth certificate, but it is not; they are lying to you.

Anonymous said...

Don't forget, Obama II was born to a male British citizen and a minor American woman. According to the laws in place at his time of birth, Obama II is a British citizen until he moved to Indonesia. There he became a citizen with a new name. He also went to Pakistan, when it was illegal for an American to go. Probibly went on an Indonesian Passport.

Anonymous said...

according to african press international posted 12 17 2008 an INMAN OF THE MOSLEM HAS THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE AND HAS FLED TO THE UNITED KINGDOM.....IT TAKES A PASSWORD....TO OPEN IT UP......I WONDER IF THIS IS TRUE OR JUST A NIGERIAN SCAM TO GET money money///www.africanpressinternational.com check for obama birth certificate

Mel Smith said...

Let's keep it simple: the citizenry has the right to see Obama's birth documentation. (Why would he be concealing it from us?) I'm maintaining a compilation of relevant links here:
http://ObamaTheFraud.blogtownhall.com/

Please send any links that should be added.

Ken Dunbar said...

We discuss Obama at Plains Radio Network Inc www.plainsradio.com
And our Pi in Hawaii disccovered the Baraack Sr and Stannley Ann 1964 divorce papers.

I anticipate an update on Monday Jan 05, 20009 show 'The Lion's den" at 7 pm Eastern.

Anonymous said...

"This strategy explains why he is willing to spend enormous amounts of his own money and resources for his legal defense (maybe not even his own money if he can make a case that he can use his campaign contributions to meet the costs involved)"

Why can't campaign contributions be spent?

And wouldn't defending Berg's lawsuits on the merits have been even more expensive? From a money standpoint, filing a motion to dismiss was the cheapest option.


"cause private individual plaintiffs and public institutions (courts and public entity defendants) to spend theirs with no end in sight."

Obama is not causing these plaintiffs to spend their own money. It is those individual plaintiffs that are chosing to spend their money that way. Similarly, it is these individual plaintiffs who are burdening the courts with these lawsuits; it was them who dragged Obama into court. (And Obama filing a motion to dismiss caused these suits to not drag on, which conserved judicial resources for other, more worthy cases.)


Also, in exactly how many suits is Obama actually a named defendant? Two (Berg's)?

Anonymous said...

in 1960 there was no such idea as "african" as a racial identity, if you were black you were classified as "negro", no other entry would have been accepted. African is a modern term and another indication that the colb is fake.

Anonymous said...

Why is not possible that Obama, Sr. listed his race as "African"? Because you are the all knowing arbiter of the 1960s, including what went on in Obama, Sr.'s head?

Puzo1 said...

To Anonymous:

Your batting average is zero. I would hope that you know that what people do or do not do is in significant part driven by the social standards, customs, and mores of the time in which they live. I hope you understand my point without my having to spoon feed it to you.

Mario Apuzzo, Esq.

Anonymous said...

Your point is obvious enough: You hate Obama. And despite the absence of facts (and law), you believe that Obama wasn't really born in Hawaii. Delusional.


And for an African man to list his race as "African" is not all that surprising; it is certaintly no proof of fraud. Again: Why is not *possible* that Obama, Sr. listed his race as "African"? Any proof that "Negro" was such a commonly used word in Kenya during Obama Sr.'s upbringing that it would be simply impossible that any other word would have been used?

Anonymous said...

URGENT REQUEST!!!!
Go to:

www.obamacrimes.com

Anonymous said...

Join the Pro-Americans at and Help save America!

http://www.grassfire.org/111/petition.asp?Ref_ID=1931

Anonymous said...

Yes, but as the writer points out the stakes are extremely high. He will eventually be found out and then he will go down in history as the biggest flim-flammer of all time. What a way to be remembered as the first black to have run for POTUS. Most importantly, what a disservice and selfish betrayal to this great country and the Office of the President!

Stephanie said...

The father does not "list" his race. The birth certificate is filled out at the time of birth by the hospital staff using terminology for race commonly used at the time. O Sr. would have had no input. I find it hard to believe that not one person has come forward remembering a racially mixed birth in Hawaii at the time. The gossip alone would have been explosive. I was born in '52 and remember when a black man getting involved with a white woman was cause for lynching. In my white catholic high school ('66 - '70) I got a bit too friendly with one of the few black students. He was threatened and I was called "nigger-lover."
I am seriously wondering if we now have a situation that when the truth comes out, and it will sooner or later, it will be turned into a race issue. The ensuing riots and loss of life may be end up being devastating.

Anonymous said...

The international civil and political rights organization known as AXJ apparently has uncovered documentation from Kenya. www.axjus.com

ron said...

In other words, all we REALY need is for Mr Obama to state in public that he was born in Hawaii?
I am ready to stnd with my President Mr Obama, in fact it is my duty.
However he MUST answer these allegations!!

To remain silent isn't an option, surely the CIA NSA FBI can find out, in fact there is no way in hell they don't already know.
It is however possible that none of these Agencies have asked to correct questiion.

This issue has grown enourmously in the past month.
Start by calling your State Senator's office and ask the obvious, call local radio and TV stations.
All this will take is ONE minor media market to run a segment about this.
Once it's on the news, our new President elect will have only TWO of his options left.
#1 commit fraud by stating that he IS a Natural Born Citizen.
or
#2 Produce a valid Birth Certificate, not one created in Adobe.
People, this isn't sour grapes...it isn't a race issue at all.
It is a issue that if left unchallenged and settled to legal satisfaction will ruin the very frame work our Nation was built around, and sadly..."We the people" will cease to mean anything and the Constitution will just be worthless paper.
R

Anonymous said...

My personal opinion, each and every political figure who has had a hand in this cover-up of Obama, should resign and new election take place, with proper vetting, of course. Though this would be the greatest shakeup in our history, it is necessary to take the garbage out and clean up our elected government. This whole affair is an outrage and a disgrace to our 300 million citizens. Freedom was paid with a heavy price. Thank you to all of those patriots who have filed suits and suffered innuendo and insult to help uncover the truth about Barry the fraud, from the Office of the President Elect...sarcasm intended.

May God again Bless this United States of America and keep us safe and strong.

Anonymous said...

Again, my personal opinion, I believe all of our "Political Leaders" (i.e. Nancy, Harry, etc) who had a part in this "Natural Born Citizen" cover-up should resign immediately and a new election take place with the proper vetting process, of course. Obama should be tried for High Treason and be held accountable to the fullest extent of the Law, since he "knows the law" and is a Lawyer. Nobody is to blame except Obama and his criminal cohorts. It is shameless to blame Berg, Orly, Leo or anyone else but the actual culprits who tried to perpetrate this fraud against the We the People of the United States. Berg, Orly, and Leo and others like them are heroes standing for what this Great Country really stands for. All of the political figures who have stood by and not stand by their oath of office should be held accountable and fired and a new election take place immediately. The media who helped in allowing this condition should re evaluate what has happened due to their lack of vetting and being in bed with the "One" and if they go out of business due to lack of any sponsors, so be it.

God Bless all you heroes who have tried to bring to light all that is necessary to bring Obama and Company to justice.

In addition, I want to thank all of our Troops, worldwide for the sacrifices they have made for us. They have sacrificed more than you may ever realize.

Anonymous said...

Mr. Barack Obama needs to STOP this crap!
It is just this simple. Your making a lot of folks very very upset mad angry....what do you think that will result in??????? LOVE?/HATE?
We deserve better and if you believe the smoke and mirrors with your hussle toget the cool folks in office along side of your butt is a detour.....NOT! is NOT makin ya look good as Gold....think again First we all need the PROOF Vault Version and you know your playing with our HEADS!!!!! Sad Man....We need proof your who you say you are. When will someone with GUTS fix this NOW? You should be ashamed and you make me ILL......Nasty Man Game Player!

Anonymous said...

"The father does not "list" his race. The birth certificate is filled out at the time of birth by the hospital staff using terminology for race commonly used at the time."

Oh, really? You have an expertise in how Hawaii filled out its birth certificates in the early 1960s? Do tell more.


"I find it hard to believe that not one person has come forward remembering a racially mixed birth in Hawaii at the time"

If you, personally, haven't heard of it, then it didn't happen? *sigh*

(And, have you been in Hawaii? It is quite diverse; mixed-race people are rather common.)


"I am ready to stnd with my President Mr Obama, in fact it is my duty.
However he MUST answer these allegations!!"

No, he MUST(!!) not. (Says who? Says you?) And, given all the dyed-in-the-wool Obama haters in these parts, your putative support for Obama is rather doubtful.


"People, this isn't sour grapes."

Actually, that's exactly what it is. A campaign after the election.


"My personal opinion, each and every political figure who has had a hand in this cover-up of Obama,"

Who, exactly, has covered up what, exactly? (And how, exactly did this cover up manifest itself?)


"Obama should be tried for High Treason and be held accountable to the fullest extent of the Law, since he "knows the law" and is a Lawyer."

Hardly an overdramatic statement at all. Now, can you please explain, exactly, how Obama committed treason?


"Berg, Orly, and Leo and others like them are heroes standing for what this Great Country really stands for."

Frivolous lawsuits!

Anonymous said...

what a shame for such intelligence above to go to such a waste,,, how you can have any cerebral function at all and not at least be somewhat suspicious of obama and his band is beyond belief, as lawyers say it just doesnt pass the smell test. get over your political blindness and at least question the obvious; if he has nothing to hide show the paperwork.

Anonymous said...

"how you can have any cerebral function at all and not at least be somewhat suspicious of obama and his band is beyond belief"

Because Obama hasn't done anything wrong. (And who is "his band"? Is that like Kool and the Gang?) He isn't a saint, but in the rough-and-tumble world of politics, he is at least par for the course. Get over YOUR political blindness, and see that there's nothing particularly horrible about Obama.


"as lawyers say it just doesnt pass the smell test."

What doesn't pass the smell test?


"if he has nothing to hide show the paperwork."

He's already shown is COLB, and that satisfied most people. He isn't required to show anything else, has better things to do, and there's no political downside to ignoring this tiny minority. Rather simple, really.

Mario said...

To the Anonymous, the frivolous one:

You said in response to answering allegations:

No, he MUST(!!) not.
Oh, and why not? Who are you to say the man taking the highest office in the land doesn't need to prove these facts?

Funny isn't it that police officers, FBI agents, etc. have to submit to polygraph tests and extensive background checks just to get hired. And the thing is, there is a very small percentage that turn out to be be bad apples. So no matter how extensive a background you do, doesn't always insure good moral character. But that doesn't mean they give up and stop trying to acquire the best people for the job.

So it should be true for the highest office in the land. Sooner or later, the truth will be exposed. You better be ready for that day.

RSW

Puzo1 said...

To Anonymous:

"He's already shown is COLB, and that satisfied most people." ONLY THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT WELL INFORMED ON WHAT A COLD IS AND ALL THE OTHER CONTRADICTORY EVIDENCE THAT EXISTS ABOUT OBAMA'S BIRTH PLACE

"t]here's no political downside to ignoring this tiny minority. Rather simple, really." READ MY ARTICLE AT http://puzo1.blogspot.com/2009/01/two-reasons-why-obama-will-neither.html . I HAVE ALREADY DISCUSSED THIS AS PART OF OBAMA'S STRATEGY. YOUR USE OF THIS JUSTIFICATION SHOWS THAT I WAS CORRECT IN WHAT I SAID IN MY ARTICLE.

Mario Apuzzo, Esq.

Anonymous said...

“Oh, and why not?”

Obama’s not legally required to release any information, and he already has released his COLB, which most people have accepted as sufficient. He’s moved on, as has the rest of the country.


“So it should be true for the highest office in the land.”

Do you seriously believe that Hillary Clinton, John McCain,the RNC (hell, even the DNC!), etc. didn’t already run all this up the flagpole? Not being vetted, and not being vetted to your unrealistic expectations are two very different things.


“Sooner or later, the truth will be exposed. You better be ready for that day.”

Oh, yes, the ever popular non-specific threat about revealing “the truth” sometime in the future. Throw in a “and your little dog, too!” and you’ll be pitch perfect.


“ONLY THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT WELL INFORMED ON WHAT A COLD [sic] IS”

The ole “the electorate is stupid!” defense. I’m sure that makes you friends wherever you go.


“AND ALL THE OTHER CONTRADICTORY EVIDENCE THAT EXISTS ABOUT OBAMA'S BIRTH PLACE”

What? A transatlantic game of telephone, to an elderly woman who isn’t even a blood relative, that will never see the light of a courtroom? And you wonder why people don’t take you seriously?


“YOUR USE OF THIS JUSTIFICATION SHOWS THAT I WAS CORRECT IN WHAT I SAID IN MY ARTICLE.”

When you wrote, “Does he remain silent as to where he was born and continue to refuse to release his original birth certificate and thereby earn the contempt of those in the public who believe that he has not convincingly proven that he is a "natural born Citizen" and eligible to be President? I submit that Obama has made the third choice,” that was about the only correct thing you’ve ever said.

However, birfers are a tiny, tiny minority. There’s no political downside in Obama ignoring you.

Puzo1 said...

Obot:

Life past and future is but a thought. You have been in both. Now there is no place for you in the latter. Hence, be banish to the former.

Ask the Right Questions to Get the Right Answers

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous, the all knowing 8 ball. You said:

"He's already shown his COLB, and that satisfied most people".

What people, you mean people like yourself who can't tell the difference between a real birth certificate and a wanted poster you can put your face on from Disneyland? And why can't you tell the difference....(already said many ways)because the Leftist Collective(like you)pretends forgeries are real when it's in their interest to do so.

I'll send Bonzo to you with his copy of his university degree & COLB, maybe you can convince (shouldn't be too hard)another Lefty like yourself to sponsor him into a senate seat if you hurry.

Stephanie said...

>>Oh, really? You have an expertise in how Hawaii filled out its birth certificates in the early 1960s? Do tell more.

Go to your local hospital find a nurse who works the delivery rooms and ask. You will be told what the procedure is and was. Pretty standard.
Today fathers are encouraged to participate in Lamaze classes and to be present in the delivery room. Not so back then. My husband was not allowed any further than the labor room. After the birth *I* was the one who stated the father's name, etc. for the LONG FORM BC. The footprint had already been taken, the time, attending physician's name, all the info was filled in. The hospital also has a record of who paid the bill. At least I'm sure of which one it was ... Obama's sisters can't seem to agree on which hospital in Hawaii the birth took place, and his paternal grandmother in Kenya claims to have witnessed the birth -- in Kenya, not Hawaii.
Obama's family seems to have memory problems, and since human beings are not perfect we must therefore rely only on verifiable facts. Following the Rules of Evidence -- original documents must be produced, not extracts or excuses.

30+ years ago I was in a horrific accident and spent 3 months in intensive care. 2 1/2 years ago I went in for a procedure and one of the nurses remembered me -- because I survived. She had just begun working there when I was brought in, and she was about ready to retire when I ran into her again. So, it is possible to remember someone.

>>If you, personally, haven't heard of it, then it didn't happen? *sigh*

You would think that in this day of selfish fame seeking -- tabloids exploit the least tidbit of gossip -- you would someone would have milked those rags with an "I was there" or "nursing home resident recalls ..." The silence is deafening. So far only the "Globe" has gone where the rest fear to tread. Both stories stuck to the issues with nary a Bigfoot or little gray alien in sight.

>>If you, personally, haven't heard of it, then it didn't happen? *sigh*

Would you have us think that no one born in the 40s and 50s has access to the internet and can figure out how to post on a blog? There are people around who remember the race riots. Many posting here are too young to have experienced these events, but they did happen.

I am well aware of the composition of Hawaii's population, a large segment being Polynesian and Asian. Only 2.5% are Black, compared with the mainland where it is almost 13%. According to census records intermarriage among Islander and Asiatic races was fairly common -- I was able to find figures for 1950. Hawaii became a state in 1960. No intermarriage stats for Black/White were shown, leading me to believe it was very UNcommon.

Interestingly enough in order to obtain entry into a state funded program a few years ago I had to obtain and turn over my college records. I did so. Obama refuses to release his for either school. Why? Things that make you go hmmm.

Anonymous said...

"What people, you mean people like yourself who can't tell the difference between a real birth certificate and a wanted poster you can put your face on from Disneyland?"

And the millions of people who voted for him. There was an election, remember?

And there's no proof the COLB is a forgery, unless you unquestionably believe every anonymous "expert" on the internet.


"Go to your local hospital find a nurse who works the delivery rooms and ask."

And get in the way of people doing very important work? No thanks.


"You will be told what the procedure is and was. Pretty standard."

And how will my local nurse know the procedures in Hawaii, in 1961?


"Obama's sisters can't seem to agree on which hospital in Hawaii the birth took place"

Were either present at his birth?


"his paternal grandmother in Kenya claims to have witnessed the birth -- in Kenya, not Hawaii."

The third wife of Obama's paternal grandfather played a transatlantic game a telephone, via a translator, with a "street minister." Her statement will never see the light of a courtroom. But of course that it more reliable than a duly issued official state document that entitles the bearer to a driver's license, passport, etc.


"Following the Rules of Evidence -- original documents must be produced, not extracts or excuses."

Exactly. None of the Obama family members' statements are admissible in any court, but the COLB would be.


"You would think that in this day of selfish fame seeking -- tabloids exploit the least tidbit of gossip -- you would someone would have milked those rags with an "I was there" or "nursing home resident recalls ..." The silence is deafening."

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." -- Carl Sagan. Think about it.


"Obama refuses to release his for either school. Why?"

He's not required to, got better things to do, and there's no downside in not doing so. Pretty simply, really.

Anonymous said...

Congradulations, Mr. President-Elect:

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2009/01/obama_wins_offi.html

Anonymous said...

Pretty simply, really.

Yes, I would say you are. But, congratulations anyway. Now you can stand with your hand out and pray & hope for that change. I wouldn't stand out too long though wishing for that free handout for your mortgage payment or for him to flip that bill for your gas. You may wake up soon enough.

Puzo1 said...

To Obot:

I do not understand the whole "change" thing. What are we changing? How are we changing it? Yes, there are existing problems, but dealing and resolving those problems is not "change." Rather, its just good management and leadership. So where are these changes planned? Here is an example, if my car does not work because it has a flat tire and a broken transmission, I fix those parts and the car works again. I did not change my car. Maybe our obot follower can tell us what changes are planned. By the way, do not tell me about the war in Iraq because that war has already been won.

Stephanie said...

>> Exactly. None of the Obama family members' statements are admissible in any court, but the COLB would be.

The entire issue would go away with the revelation of one document:
The correct document. The Certificate NOT the Certification. The State of Hawaii itself recognizes the difference and plainly states the unsuitability of the Certification vs the Certificate in an application for their Home Lands Homestead program, qualification for which requires proof of Hawaiian ancestry:

http://hawaii.gov/dhhl/applicants/appforms/applyhhl

In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original *Certificate* of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the *Certification* of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original *Certificate* of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated *Certification* requires additional verification by DHHL.

*Note: I have placed asterisks around italics found in the preceding paragraph which I've quoted from Hawaii's own website. Can it be made any more clear?

There is a difference between certification and certificate. There is a difference between "native-born" and "natural-born." I am native born and therefore not eligible to run for the presidency. Our founding fathers in their wisdom recognized the importance the highest office in this country and singled it out, limiting it to individuals who have no conflicts in allegiance.

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." -- Carl Sagan. It works both ways. It is of no matter whether the posted C*ertification*OLB is genuine, the faultiness of the memories of his sisters, the closed doors encountered every time attempts are made to access information about this man's background. All these questions taken as a whole raise suspicions about Obama's character. Our elected officials work for US, the citizens and taxpayers.
Either our Constitution matters or it does not.
Either the man is eligible or he is not.

Our current system failed in allowing candidates to run for office on every level without having first presented proper identification. An individual can be eligible to serve as governor, senator, but not the president.

"*Certification* requires additional verification ..." The solution here is very simple: Stop trying to push a "certification" in place of a "certificate."
Produce the Certificate.

Anonymous said...

"Now you can stand with your hand out and pray & hope for that change. I wouldn't stand out too long though wishing for that free handout for your mortgage payment or for him to flip that bill for your gas."

Just because you may suckle at the government teat doesn't mean everyone does. Some of us have no problems with paying taxes.


"You may wake up soon enough."

Please make a reference to "The Matrix." Pllleeeeeeaaaassseeee.



"To Obot:"

Is this kind of advocacy you were taught in law school? Insults? (And lame ones at that?)

You call yourself a professional? Doubtful you are really even a lawyer.


"I do not understand the whole "change" thing."

Not surprising; the ignorance here knows no bounds.


"Maybe our obot follower can tell us what changes are planned."

Your research skills are even worse than Berg's and Taitz's (and theirs are pretty bad to beginning with!). "change.gov" will surely answer all of your questions.


"The entire issue would go away with the revelation of one document"

You can fool yourself with that lie, but not many others. Birfers have a rather amazing ability to declare any document they don't like to be a forgery.


"The State of Hawaii itself recognizes the difference and plainly states the unsuitability of the Certification vs the Certificate in an application for their Home Lands Homestead program"

As it should, since the homestead program is available only to native Hawaiians, and such ancestry is not on the COLB. It would be like trying to join a Native American tribe by presenting your driver's license.


"limiting it to individuals who have no conflicts in allegiance"

Exactly to who else does Obama owe allegiance? Kenya? Indonesia? Canada? England? King Kamehameha I?


"It is of no matter whether the posted C*ertification*OLB is genuine"

Actually, that ends the matter. It's valid, it's admissible evidence, and by Hawaiian law, it contains the same information as found on the birth certificate.


"All these questions taken as a whole raise suspicions about Obama's character."

Your suspicions are not reasonable, and "these questions" did not sufficiently raise the suspicions of those with standing (i.e., Clinton, McCain).


"Either our Constitution matters or it does not.
Either the man is eligible or he is not."

Either you can just admit you are wrong on this one, or you cannot.
Either you can quit the dramatic hyperbole, or you cannot.


"Our current system failed in allowing candidates to run for office on every level without having first presented proper identification."

If by "fail," you mean does not affirmatively require, then perhaps. So now would be a good time (like they are trying do in Oklahoma) to change that for future elections. But this one's been put to bed.


"Stop trying to push a "certification" in place of a "certificate.""

What part of "He's not required to, got better things to do, and there's no downside in not doing so" is unclear?

Puzo1 said...

To Your Highness:

1. "Is this [sic] kind of advocacy you were taught in law school? Insults? (And lame ones at that?)You call yourself a professional? Doubtful you are really even a lawyer... Birfers have a rather amazing ability to declare any document they don't like to be a forgery."

Incredible that you ("Anonymous") should so complain. You have sat on your butt there in front of your computer calling concerned Americans--who want to know two little things that are beyond your comprehension: 1. where was Obama born and 2. assuming he was born in Hawaii and given that his father was a British citizen at the time of his birth, is he an Article II "natural born Citizen"--"birfers," "tin-hat looneys," "conspiracy nut jobs," etc. and you have the nerve to complain when we call you an "obot"? Your hypocrisy and lack of common sense astounds me. I do not know what school you went to, what exams you took, who you work for, or what your last name is, but you lack common sense, the only real intelligence in life.

2. "As it should, since the homestead program is available only to native Hawaiians, and such ancestry is not on the COLB. It would be like trying to join a Native American tribe by presenting your driver's license."

If Hawaii requires the original birth certificate to prove that one is a "native" Hawaiian, then why cannot concerned Americans require that Obama also produce his original birth certificate to prove he is a "native" American? It's the birth certificate, stupid.

3. "Exactly to who else does Obama owe allegiance? Kenya? Indonesia? Canada? England? King Kamehameha I?"

Talking about research skills, maybe you should read E. de Vattel, The Law of Nations Sec. 212 (1758); July 25, 1787 letter from John Jay to George Washington; Article 2, Section 1, Clause 5 of the Constitution; Naturalization Act of 1790 (1 Stat.103,104); Naturalization Act of 1795 (1 Stat. 414) (children of citizens of the United States born out of the limits and jurisdiction of the United States shall be considered as citizens of the United States as opposed to natural born citizens); 14th Amendment; Rep. John Bingham of Ohio speech on civil rights of citizens in the House on March 9, 1866; Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. 162 (1875); United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U. S. 649 (1898); Perkins v. Elg, 99 F.2d 408 (D.C. Cir. 1938), aff’d 307 U.S. 325 (1939); restoretheconstitutionalrepublic.org.

4. "Your suspicions are not reasonable, and "these questions" did not sufficiently raise the suspicions of those with standing (i.e., Clinton, McCain)."

Do you also believe that the military plaintiffs do not have standing?

5. "If by "fail," you mean does not affirmatively require, then perhaps. So now would be a good time (like they are trying do in Oklahoma) to change that for future elections. But this one's been put to bed. . . What part of 'He's not required to, got better things to do, and there's no downside in not doing so' is unclear?"

There you go again with that great common sense. Are you telling me that because there currently does not exist on the books any law that technically requires a candidate for President to show that he is a "natural born Citizen" as is required by Article II, such candidate has no duty or obligation, based on basic decency, honesty, and integrity, to the American people who he/she expects to vote for him/her to make such a showing? What kind of political leaders are you breeding? On the other hand, if you are motivated by the desire to win at whatever financial and moral cost, then you might have a valid point.

Mario Apuzzo, Esq.

Stephanie said...

>>It would be like trying to join a Native American tribe by presenting your driver's license.

Unbelievable. You deliberately refuse to see any point that is being made here. However the statement you made above supports my point, so thank you. The certification does not provide sufficient info to address the constitutional requirements any more than a driver's license does or in this case, the certification Obama posted.

>>But this one's been put to bed.
As far as you are concerned you would a allow a fraud to be perpetrated and a crime to stand.
So if a person gains a position at a hospital by fraudulent means (phoney doctor), since they were already hired they should be allowed to continue operating.
LOL -- How about the fellow in the movie "Catch Me if You Can" maybe he should have been allowed to continue flying or practicing medicine?
[Catch Me if You Can (2002) A true story about Frank Abagnale Jr. who, before his 19th birthday, successfully conned millions of dollars worth of checks as a Pan Am pilot, doctor, and legal prosecutor.]

>>What part of "He's not required to, got better things to do, and there's no downside in not doing so" is unclear?

Where does it say he is not required? He most certainly is required and the info released is not adequate. The Constitution sets forth the requirements the same way requirements to join a Native American Tribe are stated. Just as a drivers license is inadequate to join the tribe, so is the Certification posted inadequate Just because the initials are the same (COLB), does not mean the documents are the same. Obama flatly refuses to provide the proper documentation.

It is obvious that you are not interested in upholding the Constitution and would look the other way if a crime were to be discovered. Do you care about the principles our country was built on or do you only care that your preferred candidate serve even if he is ineligible to do so? Meh.

JazzyKat said...

B. Hussein Obama isn't really worried about this issue. He knows the Supreme Court is not going to touch this and he'll just change the constitution once he gets into power, with the help of his Democratic controlled congress. In fact it's going to change so much, we won't even recognize our country in 4 years.

RiverQueen18 said...

Any Government job that anyone applies for involves showing a birth certificate and a background check, why hasn't this been done for the highest office in the land? I can remember applying for menial jobs during the summer and I had to show a birth certificate. I don't get the big deal, show it or you're fired. period. With all the CFR members in Congress, Obama , a former CFR member has plenty of protection and that also has to be stopped, how can people pledge allegience to the US when they are loyal to clubs like the skull and bones and the CFR, all of these clubs seem to focus on changing America or running the world, its ridiculous, who gives these people this kind of power.? John Rockefeller admitted in his biography that he has been conspiring against America for years and proud of it, why was he not arrested for treason? I don't understand any of this. These federal Judges who have the autacity to throw out valid court cases on grounds these people have no standing, any American citizen has a standing, this is our so called President who is going to determine our future , which seems bleak right now, everyone has a standing. We are paying these peoples salaries yet they act like kings and we are the peons. Maybe we ought to form a house of un-American activities again, that seem to be the only way to go nowadays. Maybe we should look into that. I'd like ot exchange my tinfoil hat for a crown wouldnt' you?

RiverQueen18 said...

When anyone goes for a Government job they have to show a birth certificate and undergo a background check, why doesn't the President of the USA? He couldn't get a job in the secret service or the FBI without doing that yet he can be the president of the USA?3

For a Federal judge to throw out any case pertaining to this problem because the person initiating it has "no standing" is a travesty of Justice, this man is going to determine our future and every American has a standing because of that fact.
More than half of our Congress and Senate are members of the CFR, Obama was a member of the CFR until he ran for President, the cabinet he chose are almost all CFR members, he is well protected and with a backer like John D Rockefeller the sky is the limit, Here you have John Rockefeller who admitted in his biography that he has been conspiring against America for years and proud of it, he stood on the stage behind Obama when he made his inaugeration speech clapping like a mad man. If any one of us had made such an admission we would have been arrested for treason.
I think we should bring back the House of Un-American activities again, that seems to be the only way we will get this cleared up once and for all. What do you have to do in order to get that going? McCarthy didnt' seem to have a problem getting it off the ground, maybe that is the answer. This is all getting too complicated when it is a simple problem , show your birth certificate or your fired.period. Where is Ken Starr? there has to be someone we can get to start a legal ball rolling. Someone who isn't owned by the CFR. This is another thing that should be stopped, all these esoteric Un-American clubs infiltrating our Government, no one should be elected to office if they belong to one of these groups. The Government needs a complete overhauling, and get rid of the UN too, two years of dues to those Un-American loafers would feed the world or at least pay off some of our debts. How did we let this happen?

Pete said...

I'm curious as to what your take is on Hawaiian law that states the COLB is supposed to legally and accurately describe the information listed on the original Certificate of Live Birth?

§338-19 Photostatic or typewritten copies of records. The department of health is authorized to prepare typewritten, photostatic, or microphotographic copies of any records and files in its office, which by reason of age, usage, or otherwise are in such condition that they can no longer be conveniently consulted or used without danger of serious injury or destruction thereof, and to certify to the correctness of such copies. The typewritten, photostatic, or microphotographic copies shall be competent evidence in all courts of the State with like force and effect as the original.

§338-16 Procedure concerning late and altered birth certificates. (a) Birth certificates registered one year or more after the date of birth, and certificates which have been altered after being filed with the department of health, shall contain the date of the late filing and the date of the alteration and be marked distinctly “late” or “altered”.


Concerning foreign births or adoptions:

§338-20.5 Adoption; foreign born persons. (a) The department of health shall establish a Hawaii certificate of birth for a person born in a foreign country and for whom a final decree of adoption has been entered in a court of competent jurisdiction in Hawaii....

The new certificate of birth shall show the true or probable foreign country of birth, and that the certificate is not evidence of United States citizenship for the child for whom it is issued or for the adoptive parents.


And concerning electronic records:

§92-29 Reproduction of government records. Any public officer having the care and custody of any record, paper, or document may cause the same to be photographed, microphotographed, reproduced on film, or copied to an electronic format. Any device or electronic storage system used to copy or reproduce the record, paper, or document shall accurately reflect the information in the original thereof in all details.

§92-30 Copy deemed original record. A photograph, microphotograph, reproduction on film, or electronic copy of a government record shall be deemed to be an original record for all purposes, including introduction in evidence in all courts or administrative agencies. A transcript, exemplification, facsimile, or certified copy thereof, for all purposes recited in this section, shall be deemed to be a transcript, exemplification, facsimile, or certified copy of the original record.


To condense, the COLB is a legal and ACCURATE representation of the information contained in the original Certificate of Live Birth. It must not contain information altered from the original unless marked as such. If a person is born in a foreign country, it must contain that information on the COLB.

And to paraphrase, an electronic copy of a government record, that being the COLB, is considered an original record for all purposes, with the ability to be used in courts or for governmental procedures, such as obtaining a driver's license or on an I9 form when applying for a job to prove citizenship. And the electronic record "shall accurately reflect the information in the original thereof in all details."

Basically, the COLB is just as good as the original, legally serving the same function and containing accurate information that cannot be altered from it.

This might be the argument that is being used in the court cases and why they are getting dismissed so handily.

cfkerchner said...

All on this thread should read the below linked Catalog of Evidence paper on why all Americans have very good reasons to be concerned as to whether Obama was actually physically born in Hawaii and not simply just falsely registered as being born their via a sworn affidavit signed by a family member. Registration of a birth whether real or memorex as occurring in Hawaii gets one a Certification of Live Birth from Hawaii, but does not prove that one was really born in Hawaii. For that one needs to see a long form birth certificate with the names of medical attendants and witnesses to the birth to fully corroborate that a birth really did in fact take place in Hawaii and was not just a fraudulent filled out sworn affidavit by a family member which no one bothered to investigate back then due to the lax Hawaiian birth registration laws in the new state. Read this catalog of evidence prepared by Attorney Mario Apuzzo.

http://puzo1.blogspot.com/2010/05/catalog-of-evidence-concerned-americans.html

CDR Charles Kerchner (Ret)
http://www.protectourliberty.org

Pete said...

Following the above link provides no concrete proof but links to other articles where spurious information is presented.

As my links to actual Hawaiian law prove and very clearly state, the COLB is an accurate and legal representation of the original document. Read those statutes again, they are not my words.

One phrase in the above link mentioned states this:

Fukino's statements and even an authenticated COLB are legally insufficient for proving that Obama was born in Hawaii, for they merely represent that Obama's alleged birth record is on file in the state of Hawaii. They fall short of providing the information necessary to determine whether Obama was in fact born in Hawaii.

True, Fukino's statements do not bear out a legal representation of Obama being born in Hawaii, but his COLB does, as stated by law. Stating it is insufficient is an incorrect statement, as countered by the statutes of Hawaiian law.

I'll quote some specific passages that wholly support this.

Concerning photostatic or typewritten copies of records.

The typewritten, photostatic, or microphotographic copies shall be competent evidence in all courts of the State with like force and effect as the original.

...certificates which have been altered after being filed with the department of health, shall... be marked distinctly... "altered"

Concerning foreign born persons:

The new certificate of birth shall show the true or probable foreign country of birth, and that the certificate is not evidence of United States citizenship for the child for whom it is issued or for the adoptive parents.

There are no such markings on the COLB stating 'altered' or showing a different country of birth. The only way the COLB would be considered a non-legal document is if it were forged.

Claims of evidence produced that show the COLB to be a forgery are baseless and have been proven to be false repeatedly. Stating several times that it is a forgery does not make it so.

Concerning electronic records:

Any device or electronic storage system used to copy or reproduce the record, paper, or document shall accurately reflect the information in the original thereof in all details.

While one may argue 'The COLB does not have all the details of the original certificate', it is supposed to be accurate in the details that matter, which is stating the place of birth.

And lastly, law stating a copy to be deemed as an original record:

...electronic copy of a government record shall be deemed to be an original record for all purposes, including introduction in evidence in all courts or administrative agencies.

And one more fact that must be represented is that the Hawaiian Department of Health no longer issues long-form documents, only the COLB, and it has been borne out to be a fully legal and accurate representation of the original document.

Most of what I've read from the above link is chockful of negative-proof arguments. Basically, if there is an absence of information to argue against a supposition, then it must be true. A competent lawyer will tell you that those kinds of arguments never fly in court since there is also no evidence to show that the supposition is true as well.

Pete said...

Just poking through the comments a little bit.

One that stood out to me is the quotation from the Hawaiian Homelands Program website. I recommend going there and searching for this particular 'quote'.

http://hawaii.gov/dhhl/applicants/appforms/applyhhl

In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original *Certificate* of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the *Certification* of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original *Certificate* of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated *Certification* requires additional verification by DHHL.


You'll find there is no such wording. In fact, here is what is really located there. I will highlight in bold some of the more pertinent phrases:

Birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth and Certifications of Live Birth) and Certificates of Hawaiian Birth are the primary documents used to determine native Hawaiian qualification.

The Department of Hawaiian Home Lands accepts both Certificates of Live Birth (original birth certificate) and
Certifications of Live Birth because they are official government records documenting an individual’s birth.

The Certificate of Live Birth generally has more information which is useful for genealogical purposes as compared to the Certification of Live Birth which is a computer-generated printout that provides specific details of a person’s birth. Although original birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth) are
preferred for their greater detail, the State Department of Health (DOH) no longer issues Certificates of Live Birth. When a request is made for a copy of a birth certificate, the DOH issues a Certification of Live Birth.

The only reason I highlighted the word 'preferred' is because it does not say required.

Not quite sure where the other text that was quoted about requiring only the certificate. It just isn't there.

RiverQueen18 said...

when was the last time Mario Apuzzo posted on this bolg? most of these posts are from 2009.

Puzo1 said...

RiverQueen18,

I do not understand why you say that my last post was in 2009. Where are you looking?

You can see my last posted article dated 1/27/11 at this blog. And there are many in between.