Friday, May 29, 2009

Why Can't Obama Give a Simple and Truthful Answer to the Birth Certificate Question?

Below you will find a link to NPR. Listen to the audio "Listen Now." This is a January 21, 2009 All Things Considered interview by NPR Michael Siegel of NPR's Scott Horsley, who is a White House correspondent for NPR News. Horsley was at the White House as he spoke. Horsley recounts how Obama retook the oath of office. Siegel then mentions "that lawsuit" that was brought against Obama which alleged he was not born in Hawaii but rather in Indonesia (just shows how informed the mainstream media is). Horsley laughs as Seigel was referring to the law suit. Siegel then continues that it was a good idea for Obama to redo the oath to avoid "that kind of lawsuit" from being litigated. Go to 2:33 in the segment and then you will hear Horsely say the following:

"It it it [sic] reminded Press Secretary Robert Gibbs of that very thing too. He was joking about this this [sic] morning and said 'You know we have we [sic] have the birth certificate if you if you [sic] (Siegel laughs) want to see it . . . .'" Horsely then continues how Chief Justice Roberts re-administered the oath:
http://www.npr.org/templates/player/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=99681708&m=99681694

On May 27, 2009, at a White House press briefing that was viewed on C-Span, World Net Daily’s White House correspondent, Les Kinsolving, reminded Obama’s White House Press Secretary, Robert Gibbs, about Obama’s statement regarding transparency. The exchange went as follows (43:34 to 45:35):

Kinsolving: “Thank you, thank you, very much. Just one question concerning what the president said in his speech on Thursday, and I quote, ‘I ran for president promising transparency, and I meant what I said. This is why, whenever possible, we will make information available to the American people so they can make informed judgments and hold us accountable.’ Do you remember that statement?”
Gibbs: “I can confirm that he said that.”

Kinsolving: “Good. In consideration of this very good promise of transparency, why can’t the president respond to the petition to requests of 400,000 American citizens by releasing a certified copy of his long-form birth certificate listing hospital – (laughter) – 400,000. …”

Gibbs: “Are you looking for the President’s birth certificate?”

Kinsolving: “Yes.”

Gibbs: “It’s on the Internet, Lester.”

Kinsolving: “No, no, no — the long form listing his hospital and physician.” (Laughter.)

Gibbs: “Lester, this question in many ways continues to astound me. The state of Hawaii provided a copy with the seal of the President’s birth. I know there are apparently at least 400,000 people – (laughter) – that continue to doubt the existence of and the certification by the state of Hawaii of the president’s birth there, but it’s on the Internet because we put it on the Internet for each of those 400,000 to download. I certainly hope by the fourth year of our administration that we’ll have dealt with this burgeoning birth controversy.”

And with that, Gibbs ended the briefing.

Video and report on the briefing found here at WND.com:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=99342

Video and blog comments about the briefing found here at TheFoxNation.com:
http://www.thefoxnation.com/politics/2009/05/27/gibbs-finally-fields-birth-certificate-question

Now, Gibbs did not say that “we have the birth certificate” and do you want to see it? Gibbs’ shallow, sarcastic, and factually false, different response adds absolutely nothing to resolving the controversy surrounding Obama’s place of birth. Let us examine the available evidence.

What Obama or some other unkown person posted on the internet is not a birth certificate (BC). Rather, he/she posted a questionable short, summary form "certification of live birth" (COLB) which at best is only prima facie evidence of the place of his birth. The prima facie value of this document fails in light of numerous existing factual circumstances which contradict the COLB's validity and which have not been adequately explained by Obama.

According to Obama and Gibbs, this digital document image alone is supposed to allow Obama to qualify and be eligible under Article II of our Constitution to be President of the United States and Commander in Chief of the Military. According to them, this electronic image alone is sufficient to prove that Obama is a Natural Born Citizen of the U.S. and therefore qualified to have the full power of the executive vested in him. It is unbelievable that Obama would expect the American people to grant him such license over their lives based simply upon an electronic image on a computer screen. It is even more unbelievable that the Electoral College, our Congress, political institutions, security forces, and media would allow him to get away with it. This document, which in its paper form is undoubtedly a legal document, has no probative value given that it was posted by some unknown person on the internet as a digital image without following any prescribed electronic media security protocols. We know that digital images can be easily manipulated through computer technology. See http://technology.findlaw.com/articles/01102/010555.html for an explanation of the need to follow defined federal and state standards when it comes to electronic/digital information transmittal of legal documents. If Obama expects this digital image of a Certification of Live Birth, aka COLB, to have such unprecedented value which allows him to be President of the United States, then he should at least show that the electronic image he posted meets electronic/digital security standards.

While not officially confirmed, the authenticity of the digital computer image of the proffered Obama COLB on the internet, and the underlying paper document used to make the images, has been questioned by at least two digital image experts who have concluded that the COLB digital image has been altered and changed and that the COLB document itself shown in that digital image is a forgery. Here is a link to the scientific analysis and report by one expert, Dr. Ron Polarik: http://polarik.blogtownhall.com/

Obama says he was born in a hospital. A birth certificate provides the name of the hospital where the birth occurred and the name of the doctor delivering the baby. The COLB does not have this vital corroborating information.

When Obama was born in 1961, Hawaii had in effect the Certificate of Hawaiian Birth Program which it established in 1911 and which it terminated in 1972. Someone could under Act 96 get a certificate claiming a Hawaiian birth even if he was physically born in Kenya by an adult or parent falsely claiming to the director of health that he was born in Hawaii when in fact he was born in Kenya. Hence, because of the contradictory evidence that exists regarding where he was born, plaintiffs are entitled to pierce the alleged COLB and examine the file that is in the possession of the Hawaiian Secretary of State which may contain a sworn application/petition in which some party set forth circumstantially all the facts upon which the application rested and supporting sworn affidavits of witnesses. The file could also contain the results of the Secretary or his designee examinations under oath of the applicant or other person who may have been cognizant of the alleged facts regarding the application/petition along with other documentary evidence that they may have obtained as a result of issuing subpoenas for books and other papers.

The DoD 5220.22-M, "National Industrial Security Program Operating Manual," 2/28/2006(NISPOM) provides baseline standards for the protection of classified information released or disclosed to industry in connection with classified contracts under the “National Industrial Security Program (NISP). It prescribes the requirements, restrictions, and other safeguards to prevent unauthorized disclosure of classified information. It also states at 2-209 that only U.S. citizens are eligible to receive a security clearance. The Manual requires a contractor to show proof of U.S. citizenship. It states at 2-208: “For individuals born in the United States, a birth certificate is the primary and preferred means of citizenship verification.” http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/522022mchaps.pdf. Surely, we should require such documentation of someone seeking to occupy the Office of President of the United States.

Not even the Hawaii Department of Home Lands accepts a short, summary form, certification of live birth (COLB) as conclusive evidence of being a native of Hawaii for its Homeland program. From its web site: "In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL."

Despite the numerous and more-to-come law suits that have been and will be filed against Obama, he continues to refuse to release his original birth certificate and has opted rather to spend large sums of money using lawyers to defend himself and to cause the courts and litigants to expend large amounts of time and resources pursuing litigation against him and other third parties. He relies on procedural and other threshold arguments such as jurisdiction, justiciability, standing, political question, separation of powers, mootness, and ripeness rather than simply produce his original birth certificate and make a motion for summary judgment with prejudice as to the merits so that no other future cases can be brought against him and others which would then put an end not only to the ongoing drain of money, time, and other resources but also to the great public outrage that continues to brew regarding his constitutional eligibility in regards to his place of birth.

For some unknown reason and relying on federal and state privacy laws, Obama has refused to publicly release his original Certificate of Live Birth (BC) even though in his book, Dreams from My Father, he stated that he has it.

Obama and his half-sister have each stated that he was born in different hospitals in Hawaii. In November 2004, in an interview with the Rainbow Newsletter, Maya told reporters her half-brother Sen. Barack Obama, was born on Aug. 4, 1961, at Queens Medical Center in Honolulu. But Obama has said he was born at Kapi'olani Medical Center for Women & Children. Changing her story, in February 2008 Maya then told reporters for the Honolulu Star-Bulletin that Obama was born at the Kapi’olani Medical Center for Women and Children.

On February 5, 2008, Madelyn Dunham was still alive, but the Obama campaign did not make her available for interviews with the media. Obama's maternal grandmother surely would have known where her grandson was born but Obama refused the media access to her. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004164387_brodeur05m.html.

Neither of the two or any other hospital in Hawaii or anywhere in the world has been willing to come forward and claim its place in history as being the hospital where the first African-American U.S. President was born. There is no Hawaiian hospital that has confirmed that Obama and/or his mother were present in any such hospital at the time of Obama's alleged birth in Honolulu. Not a single person has come forward, not a doctor, nurse, hospital administrator, nor any one else to confirm Obama's birth in Hawaii. "We don't have plans to do anything," said Kapiolani Medical Center spokeswoman, Claire Tong, when asked how the center plans to commemorate the soon-to-be 44th U.S. president, who, according to Obama's family and other sources, was born at that hospital on Aug. 4, 1961. "We can't confirm or deny it — even though all the information out there says he was born at Kapiolani Hospital. And that's because of the HIPA law." Tong acknowledged that the center has received daily inquiries from news agencies far and wide asking for confirmation of Obama's birthplace. Despite her wanting to do so, Tong said it is not possible. "Our hands are tied," she said:
http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/20081109/NEWS01/811090361/-1/specialobama08
I wonder why Tong said that “even though all the information out there says he was born at Kapiolani Hospital.” He surely did not even slightly hint that any information in the hospital supported such a claim. One would think that Obama would do a simple thing and give the hospital permission to release the information to the news-thirsty public. After all, what harm to his privacy would he suffer from authorizing the hospital to simply confirm that the President of the United States was born there?

Nor has the American public heard from any other person who could confirm Obama's birth in Hawaii.

Attorney Philip Berg has served subpoenas on the hospitals mentioned by Obama and his half sister as the place where Obama was born to obtain the medical records which would show the fact of Obama being born in either one of them but Obama has refused to sign the consent that the hospitals need to release the documents.

“Birthplaces and boyhood homes of U.S. presidents have been duly noted and honored for nearly as long as America has been a nation. In the case of such towering figures as Thomas Jefferson, Abe Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt, those early locations have been deemed national treasures and historic sites, visited annually by the multitudes.”
http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/20081109/NEWS01/811090361/-1/specialobama08
But we have not seen any movement by any public charity or foundation, non-profit organization, or government agency to commemorate Obama's place of birth in Hawaii.

We have not seen any media events or news conferences at the hospital where Obama was born which I am sure is a place the location of which is highly news worthy not only to the American people but to the whole world.

Hence, we do not even know in which hospital Obama was born.

Other than the COLB and the two newspaper announcements whose basis for information is the same single source, there does not exist one known corroborating medical or other document of any kind which shows that Obama was born in Hawaii. The Honolulu Advertiser, on Sunday, August 13, 1961 contained the following short announcement: "Mr. and Mrs. Barack H. Obama, 6085 Kalanianaole Highway, son, Aug. 4." The Honolulu Star-Bulletin, an unaffiliated, competing publication, carried the exact same notice the following day. The numerous birth announcements above and below the Obama listing also were identical in both papers. Advertiser columnist and former Star-Bulletin managing editor, Dave Shapiro, was not at either paper in 1961, but he remembers how the birth notices process worked years later when both papers were jointly operated by the Hawaii Newspaper Agency, which no longer exists. He states: "Those were listings that came over from the state Department of Health . . . . They would send the same thing to both papers.":
http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/20081109/NEWS01/811090361/-1/specialobama08
Hence, we can see that the information for those birth notices comes straight from the state Health Department’s Vital Records Division. Hence, the birth announcements, not having their source of information in some other place, do not add any corroboration to the COLB. Other secondary evidence may include baptismal or circumcision certificates, hospital birth records, or affidavits of persons having personal knowledge about the facts of birth. Other documentary evidence can be early census, school, or family bible records, newspaper files, or insurance papers. No such documents have been produced for the American public. Furthermore, no one has been able to confirm that Obama’s mother and father in fact ever lived at 6085 Kalaniana’ole Highway, Honolulu.

No public official in Hawaii has publicly confirmed that Obama was born in Hawaii. Director of Hawaiian Department of Heath, Fukino, said she has “personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures," but she failed to say that the certificate shows that Obama was born in Hawaii. Given that so many people (some intentionally to mislead and some unintentionally due to misspeaking or lack of knowledge) call the Certification of Live Birth a birth certificate, we do not know whether she was referring to the same document posted on the internet (the COLB) or an actual original certificate of live birth (BC). Just from her statement alone, we also do not know what evidence exists in the Department of Health file to corroborate what is stated in the “original birth certificate.” It is also telling that after the probative value of her statement was publicly attacked by those in the public demanding that Obama produce his original birth certificate, neither Fukino nor any one else in her office has come forward with any other clarifying information.

We have not heard from one international, federal, state, or local police or security agency that Obama's birth place has been officially confirmed.

An Investigator working for Philip Berg, Esq. learned the following which is contained in the investigator's affidavit dated October 30, 2008, that was filed with a Federal District Court in the case of Berg v. Obama, O8-cv-04083: Obama's step-grandmother, Sarah Obama, told Bishop McRae, who was in the United States, during a telephonic interview on October 12, 2008, while she was in her home located in Alego-Kogello, Kenya, that was full of security police and people and family who were celebrating then-Senator Obama's success story, that she witnessed Obama's birth in Kenya, not the United States (the English and Swahili conversation is recorded and available for listening). She was adamant about this fact not once but twice. The conversation which was placed on speaker phone was translated into English by "Kweli Shuhubia" and one of the grandmother's grandsons who were present with the grandmother in the house. After the grandmother made the same statement twice her grandson intervened, saying "No, No, No, He was born in the United States." During the interview, the grandmother never changed her reply that she was present when Obama was born in Kenya. The fact that later in the same interview she change her statement to say that Obama was born in Hawaii does not change the fact that she at first stated twice that she was present when Obama was born in Kenya. I cannot imagine a grandmother not knowing whether she was present or not at the birth of her American Senator and U.S. Presidential candidate grandson.

The investigator then personally went to the hospital in Mombassa, Kenya. He spoke with the Provincial Civil Registrar and he learned that there were records of Ann Dunham giving birth to "Barack Hussein Obama, III" in Mombassa, Kenya on August 4, 1961. The investigator then "spoke directly with an Official, the Principal Registrar, who openly confirmed the birthing records of Senator Barack H. Obama, Jr. and his mother were present, however, the file on Barack H. Obama, Jr. was classified and profiled. The Official explained Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. [sic] birth in Kenya is top secret. [H]e was further instructed to go to the Attorney General's Office and to the Minister in Charge of Immigration if [he] wanted further information."

The Kenyan Ambassador to the United States, Peter N.R.O. Ogego, confirmed on November 6, 2008 during a radio interview with Detroit radio talk-show hosts Mike Clark, Trudi Daniels, and Marc Fellhauer on WRIF's "Mike In the Morning," that "President-Elect Obama" was born in Kenya and that his birth place was already a "well-known" attraction.

The radio interview went as follows:
Clark: “We want to congratulate you on Barack Obama, our new president, and you must be very proud.”
Ogego: “We are. We are. We are also proud of the U.S. for having made history as well.”
Fellhauer: “One more quick question, President-elect Obama’s birthplace over in Kenya, is that going to be a national spot to go visit, where he was born?”
Ogego: “It’s already an attraction. His paternal grandmother is still alive.”
Fellhauer: “His birthplace, they’ll put up a marker there?”
Ogego: “It would depend on the government. It’s already well known.”
http://my.wrif.com/mim/index.php?s=Ogego

Later on, Ogego’s assistant, denying that Obama was born in Kenya, insisted Ogego was speaking about Barack Obama Sr., and not President-elect Obama. She said she could not say why Ogego responded the way he did. Listening to the radio interview in its entirety, it is very obvious the interviewers were all talking about President-elect Barack Obama and not his father. We would also expect that Ogego would have said that Obama was not born in Kenya, but there is an attraction there to honor his father. If it were true that Ogego was referring to Obama’s Sr. and not Obama Jr., we should have heard about and received credible evidence as to what preparatory steps had already been taken in Kenya to honor the birth place of Obama Sr. In evaluating Ogego’s statement, we have to also remember that Obama’s grandmother also said that Obama Jr. was born in Kenya. Hence, Ogego’s assistant’s claim that Ogego thought they were talking about Obama’s father does not appear credible.

It is alleged that the Kenyan government authorities have refused to cooperate and have thwarted all efforts by anyone to obtain any documents concerning Obama.

Obama has refused all effort to have him release the following documents, relying on sealing of records and/or privacy laws: Punahou High School records, Occidental College records, Columbia College records, Columbia Thesis paper, Harvard College records, Selective Service Registration, medical records, Illinois State Senate records, Illinois State Senate schedule, Law practice client list, Certified Copy of original Birth Certificate, Harvard Law Review articles that were published, University of Chicago scholarly articles, exit and entry immigration records covering all of Obama's travels out of the United States; passports; and record of baptism, if any.

Fightthesmears.com and Factcheck.org have since maintained silence on the birth place issue after the questionable COLB was posted on the internet.

Obama has personally remained silent and has not declared publicly anything about his birth records after his COLB and place of birth were questioned that he was born in Hawaii.

No member of the media, any political party, the Executive Branch of Government, Congress, any political institution, the Judiciary, or any law enforcement entity, has publicly stated that he or she has independently confirmed that Obama was born in Hawaii. Nor has House Speaker, Nancy Pelosi, the Chair of the Democratic National Convention, publicly announced that she confirmed that Obama was born in Hawaii.

This Himalayan Mountain of contradictory evidence is sufficient to cause the prima facie presumption of the COLB to fall. Obama therefore now has the burden to come forward with competent evidence to conclusively prove that he was born in Hawaii. To date, he has failed to come forward with such evidence. Hence, under these circumstances, how can the American people in good faith conclude that Obama was born in Hawaii? How did Obama in good conscious twice take the oath to be President on January 20th when so many Americans have put forward all this contradictory evidence regarding where he was born and he refuses to come forward with any other convincing evidence (like a certified copy of his long-form original birth certificate) showing that he was born in Hawaii?

We cannot place any trust in what Mr. Gibbs said. He and Mr. Obama have to do a much better job than Mr. Gibbs’ feeble and floundering effort at answering Mr. Kinsolving’s simple question. Obama should just do the right and simple thing for everyone's sake and produce the real evidence of where he was born rather than have his political cronies dodge the question for him.

Mario Apuzzo, Esq.
185 Gatzmer Avenue
Jamesburg NJ 08831
Email: apuzzo [AT] erols.com
TEL: 732-521-1900 ~ FAX: 732-521-3906
BLOG: http://puzo1.blogspot.com

P.S. Also, please feel free to join the discussions and comments in this forum about the subject of the Natural Born Citizenship clause in Article II of our U.S. Constitution by [Clicking Here].
####

23 comments:

Joe said...

This is a disgrace.

Mario please post something on your website semi-perm so people can be directed to the fox news ques. as to whether the BC is a news story. We need to get replys on there.

http://www.thefoxnation.com/politics/2009/05/27/gibbs-finally-fields-birth-certificate-question

What idiots.

Puzo1 said...

Hi Joe,

Here is your suggested link as a hyperlink:

http://www.thefoxnation.com/politics/2009/05/27/gibbs-finally-fields-birth-certificate-questionMario

mtngoat61 said...

Hello Atty Apuzzo:

Excellent post on the eligibility issue and the recent question by the WorldNetDaily reporter to the White House Press Secretary Gibbs. Gibbs' use of Saul Alinsky's tactic Rule #5, ridicule, did not work as well this time and kill the issue. That tactic is starting to wear thin, imo.

http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=99342http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=99549M Publius Goat
http://www.obamacitizenshipfacts.org

Mick said...

Gibbs' "Alinsky's Rules" response was textbook. The response of the traitorous Congress, in full knowledge of their grievous disregard of the Constitution is contained in HR 985.

http://www.congress.org/congressorg/webreturn/?url=http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.985:

Mick said...

Of course, Obama may have his original BC, and is trying to narrow the scope of the NBC argument. Then by producing the document he can say "see I am a NBC, was all along". It must be reiterated and made understood that it would not matter if BO was born in JFK's lap while he was sitting at the desk in the Oval Office. BO's father was not a citizen, so BO can NEVER be a NBC. A large percentage of the population do not understand that while it may matter, the BC ultimately doesn't matter.

Jackie Smith said...

Mr. Apuzzo...this is a great article and it certainly outlines the frustration of the American people and their denied rights to know the background of their President! Please don't give up your effort and know that there are thousands and thousands of us out here who are behind you. I am personally sending this post you wrote out to hundreds of news agency and law officials. Thank you for all of your hard work....it will eventually pay off...the Lord is in control and something is going to shake the truth out!


“Fear God… For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.” Ecc. 12:13,14

James said...

You make an excellent point Mario. If Gibbs expects that posted on-line COLB is in fact Obama's birth certificate, Gibbs and Obama has not been forthcoming on the statutes that govern the posting and transmitting of electronic documents. Without a full expanation, the Posted COLB simply can not be accepted.

Mairi said...

Mick, You are absolutely correct. All we learn from the actual B/C is whether or not BO was a "dual citizen" at birth, or whether he is an ILLEGAL alien, just like his aunt. Birth in Hawaii to an alien father only means that before his adoption in Indonesia, and his use of a foreign passport as an adult, (which is recognized as an acceptance of that citizenship in the eyes of the law) means he had American citizenship at birth. Since neither Kenya or Indonesia allow dual citizenships, if he was born in Kenya, he never WAS a citizen at all. This whole thing is an outrage! I am actually thinking about placing one of the WND billboard signs on my rooftop! I own the tallest house on my block!
Mario, GOD Bless you for the work you do. Many of us have been at this since early last year, but had no way to do what you are doing. I for one thank GOD everyday for all the patriots who REFUSE to allow this to continue unchallenged!

Igor said...

How you tell when pollitician lie?

Comrade Pelosi blink

Dumb Donkey Gibbs laugh...Hehaw..he..haw..he..haw!

I Igor produce Barrack Milhaus Hussein Obama Birth Certificate at www.igormaro.org

roderick said...

It really is not important where this man was born. As long as this imposter wants to dodge the question that is fine with me. I believe that he is going to be brought up on impeachment long before the judges ever want to hear any of these cases. I do believe that Mr. Kerchner's angle is the best one to date. Attacking the core of the problem and making the senate responsible for complicity in his heinous criminal activities against the citizens of the United States of America all under the auspices of slavery reparations. I personally never owned any slaves so any of this so called guilt trip that the imposter is trying to heap on me isn't going to fly. This fraud in the white house really thinks that we owe it to him even though he has no proven track record and all he does is blabber out of both sides of his mouth.

Mick said...

Jeffrey Taylor has resigned, probably under the pressure of his ability to bring QW. I hope you are correct in your analysis, Mr. Appuzo, that QW does not have to be instituted by him or Holder exclusively. Can you explain this point?

Puzo1 said...

To smrstrauss:

PART I

"What Obama posted on the web and was confirmed by Factcheck.org and Polifact.com and its contents confirmed by two officials in Hawaii, is the ONLY birth document that Hawaii sends out to people who ask for their birth certificate."

Response: Obama can simply authorize the State of Hawaii to release any document they have in their possession. Hawaii officials said they have the "birth certificate" there. Hence, Obama can simply authorize the release.

"It is not the original birth certificate, but it IS a birth certificate--which merely means an official document listing relevant facts regarding birth."

Response: It is not a birth certificate, short and simple. The birth certificate contains the name of the hospital and doctor who delivered the baby. This is what the American people want. Stop playing your silly games.

"It is the short form, to be sure, but Hawaii no longer sends out copies of the long form. The short-form summary is the legal birth certificate that Hawaii sends out. If you go to the Web site of the Department of Health of Hawaii and request a copy of your birth certificate, you will get the Certification, the short-form summary, NOT a copy of the long-form original document. And there is no way on that page or otherwise to get a copy of the long form. I asked.

Response: Who are you kidding?

"This means two things: (1) The Certification is a legal document, accepted by ALL the departments in Hawaii (Yes, including DHHL, I asked), and (2) Unless Obama has a copy of his original birth certificate, saved from the time of his birth and not lost, all that he can show is what Hawaii sent him, which is the Certification."

Response: The COLB is a legal document. But it has limited probative value when legitimately questioned. It is only prima facie evidence of what it states. First, the actual paper COLB has not been produced to any public authority. Second, what has been produced is a digital computer image of the alleged COLB. Even assuming that we are to accept the digital image in lieu of the paper document (which we do not), the prima facie value of this computer image has been overcome by the Himalayan Mountain of contradictory evidence. Hence, it is time for Obama to do a little better than to rely on an unconfirmed and questionable computer digital image which he expects to propel him to the pinnacle of world power. How can you not see the simple absurdity in this? Oh, yes, I forgot, the emperor has nice clothes.

"This fellow, a right-wing blogger based in Hawaii, puts it better than I can."

Response: Too bad for you. Also, your example is pathetic. Am I supposed to give more acceptability to what the "right-winger" says because he is as you fallaciously state a "right-winger?"

"A fairly impressive internet industry has sprung up claiming that Obama was born in either Kenya or Indonesia."

Response: The people's right to know who their President is is not some "internet industry." It is a fundamental constitutional right of the people as clearly stated in Article II and the 20th Amendment. If Obama wants to play, he has got to play by the rules. Too bad that "party spirit" has blinded our political parties from doing what is right for our Constitutional Republic and from respecting the rule of law which is what has made our nation great. George Washington was right about warning us "in the most solemn manner against the baneful effects of the spirit of party." See his Farewell Address, paragraphs 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, and 43.

"Obama’s birth certificate posted online is exactly the same birth certificate everybody in Hawai`i gets from the State Department of Health."

Response: Not everyone else in Hawaii is the President of the United States. Not everyone else in Hawaii has so many doubts raised about where they were born like Obama has.

Continued on Part II

Mario Apuzzo, Esq.

Puzo1 said...

To smrstrauss:

Part II

"It is not forged. There is nothing unusual about the design or the texture."

Response: This is not what some expert concluded. See the "Dr. Polarik" analysis. This information alone raises a significant doubt about the digital image and entitles the plaintiffs to demand better evidence under the rules of evidence. The people are indeed entitled to have an expert examine the actual COLB and should not have to rely on the honesty and integrity of unknown persons whose fingers we see in those nice pictures on the Obama web sight. And you expect our great nation to allow a person to be President based on some fingers showing a piece of paper on a computer screen. Did I wake up in the same country that I once knew? We must be the laughing stock of the whole world but we just do not know it.

"In addition to the birth certificate, the August 13, 1961 Honolulu Advertiser also carries an announcement of Obama’s birth. The Honolulu Star-Bulletin also carries the same announcement. Both papers require submission of a copy of the birth certificate to print a birth announcement. (Correction: Both papers printed an identical list of birth announcements supplied to them by the Hawaii State Department of Health.)"

Response: These newspaper birth announcements add nothing of probative value to the inquiry of where Obama was born. As you concede, the announcements came directly from the Hawaii State Department of Health. What is missing is what underlying evidence did the State Department have to issue the alleged birth certificate?

"How to get a copy of the original? Not from Obama. He does not have it. We can get it from Hawaii by changing the law in Hawaii to make the birth files of a president public documents. This should be fairly easy to do because the governor of Hawaii is a Republican, and because--I am convinced--Democrats and Independents would not oppose changing the law. Why should they? The original in the files must show that Obama was born in Hawaii."

Response: Again, a pathetic point. We do not need any change in law. We only need Obama to tell Hawaii to release the document. Also, I see that you are in love with the party labels. See my previous point on "party spirit."

"Why? Because in 1961, when Obama was born, it was not legal to create a birth file for someone who was born outside of Hawaii. Yes, there was a law--the certificate of Hawaiian birth act--that required registration of Hawaiian children. But that also required a delay of one year before they could be registered, and there was no delay in this case, as proven by the Certification and by the notices in the newspapers."

Response: You miss the simple point. Given the contradictory evidence showing to the contrary, we want the underlying evidence that supports the COLB's statement that Obama was born in Hawaii.

"I suggest you get back to the idea that you can prove to a court that the Constitution requires both birth in the USA and two parents who were citizens at the time of birth. (I don't agree with this, but it is probably easier than proving that Obama was born somewhere else or lost his citizenship.)"

Response: Yes, indeed, in order to be President of the United States and Commander in Chief of the Military, one must be an Article II "natural born Citizen." That means that the would-be President must be born in the U.S. to a mother and father who are themselves U.S. citizens. A simple understanding of the concept of membership in a society which we call citizenship as it has developed from the most primitive tribal societies (the American Indians and African tribes as just two examples), to the Greeks and the Romans, and down to modern society, and as expressed in natural law, ancient codes, the law of nations, continental civil law, English and American common law, and English and American statutes gives the simple explanation for this. "It's the allegiance, stupid." See my many post on this blog for further details on this.

Mario Apuzzo, Esq.

Mick said...

Mario,
I don't know why you give smrstrauss the pleasure of your response. He is certainly a party hack or shill. The truth does not matter to him. The bottom line is that the BC really does not matter (although it may). The simple fact is that reliance on an unsworn website is hearsay, and not acceptable evidence in a court of law. It is simply laughable that the proposition is even put forth.
What do you think about Jeffrey Taylor's resignation?

James said...

"It is the short form, to be sure, but Hawaii no longer sends out copies of the long form. The short-form summary is the legal birth certificate that Hawaii sends out. If you go to the Web site of the Department of Health of Hawaii and request a copy of your birth certificate, you will get the Certification, the short-form summary, NOT a copy of the long-form original document. And there is no way on that page or otherwise to get a copy of the long form. I asked."

Response: If this in fact true, why was it necessary for Obama to ask for a COLB in 2007. Remember the COLB is from 2007 and didn't exist before 2007.

Just What was Obama using BEFORE 2007 to verify his hawiann Birth?...

1. His Vault Copy
2. Another COLB BEFORE 2007

I would like to see both.

roderick said...

Not everybody born on American soil is constitutionally eligible to be president. Correct me if I'm wrong. The birth certificate is being hidden because it will confirm that the imposter's father was kenyan. The imposter has already confirmed this and has not denied it. The imposter does not have divided loyalties, the imposter is only loyal to his race and kenya his homeland. I believe the imposter will be brought up on impeachment for high crimes and felonies against the people of the Unites States of America. Treason, bribes, forging documents, etc. I believe that the imposter caught everybody off guard including the Senate and the Senate didn't think the American people would question it. Remember Mr. Kerchner has the senate under civil suit to show why they allowed this man to receive the electoral college votes and did not ask the imposter for proof of being constitutionallly eligible. The man is not constitutionally eligible according to the fact finding mission that I have been able to gather over the past several months. It will never come down to a birth certificate in the sense of showing where he was born but will come down to a birth certificate showing that his father was a British citizen at the time of his birth, a kenyan if you will. That in and of itself is enough to upon further examination of the requirements to be a president to disqualify him. In other words it will come down to this. Thank you for your interest Mr. Obama in inquiring to run for the President of the United States of America but as you well know in order to run for that office or vice-president both of your parents have to be citizens and in your case your father is a British citizen. That in and of itself disqualifies you Mr. Obama but you are welcome to run for Senate.

James said...

Well said Roderick. The fact that Obama's father was Kenyan and never a US citizen or even permanent resident seems to be presdient setting. I am aware of no other US President whose parent was never a US citizen. There is talk about Chester Arthur's father being Canadian. But I think father who is Kenyan is more foreign than a father who Kenyan. After all Canada borders the USA.

Nevertheless, it might be fruitful to research all past presidental candidates and determine if there are any of their parents who weren't US Citizens.

Perhaps this issue has been dealt with before in courts in past but ultimately dismissed which is why there would no real court decision on this issue.

I know that George Romney was questioned about his elgibility in the 1960s since he was born in Mexico to 2 US citizens. Apparently, there was a lot legal background investgation in this matter but the matter never made it to courts for resolution.

It might be fruitful to research the legal analysis of that issue to determine if someone from timeframe pushed foward the definition of "Natural Born" citizen to courts as being born on US soil to 2 US citizens.

mtngoat61 said...

Hi all,

An online article titled, "Obama Presidential Eligibilty - An Introductory Primer", by Stephen Tonchen.
http://people.mags.net/tonchen/birthers.htm
M Publius Goat
http://www.obamacitizenshipfacts.org

roderick said...

can anybody from hawaii provide me or the general public with a computer generated birth certificate similar to what 'bama has up on the internet. We need somebody from hawaii to provide this so that we can see what we know is a real one so that we can put it up against what I know is a fake one and I really don't care if it is fake because he may have been born in hawaii but he is not constitutionally eligible.

roderick said...

you see if I was in that position and somebody asked me for my birth certificate I would respond "When do you want to see it?" and they would respond "no I want the long form from Baton Rouge" and I would respond once again "ok go get it it may take a month or two for them to release it but you are welcome to see it." The reason for this being is that the voters are taxpayers and I want to make sure that they are happy taxpayers that is if I were running for President. One thing you got to remember in all of this is that the senate was totally caught off guard totally taken by surprise.

KitKat said...

Mr. Apuzzo,

I believe that the simple answer to your question is that Obama has something to hide. It would be a simple matter for Obama to write Hawaii and authorize making his long form birth certificate and other vital records (adoption records, name changes if any, etc.) public. The privacy argument just doesn't hold water anymore, IMO.

KitKat
"Trust, but verify."

Aristotle The Hun said...

Thanks so much! This really needed to be done.

Aristotle the Hun (Sam Sewell) here from The Steady Drip. Most accurate and cogent article on the issue yet published.

Even better than mine. :-)

Can we post this on our blogs? With proper attribution of course.

Tim said...

@ Mick. At which point did you run with that argument without looking up the facts? Legal precedent was set in 1898 that says anyone born in the US, foreign parents or not, are granted citizenship automatically. There are a few exceptions, none of which apply to Obama. I'm sorry, but that's the law and you're wrong.

jus soli

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_Clause

In Wong Kim Ark the Supreme Court held that under the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, a man born within the United States to foreigners (in that case, Chinese citizens) who were lawfully residing in the United States and who were not employed in a diplomatic or other official capacity by a foreign power, was a citizen of the United States.

Under these two rulings, the following persons born in the United States are not "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States, and thus do not qualify for automatic citizenship under the Fourteenth Amendment:

* Children born to foreign diplomats

* Children born to enemy forces in hostile occupation of the United States

* Children born to Native Americans who are members of tribes not taxed (These were later given full citizenship by the Indian Citizenship Act of 1924.)

The following persons born in the United States are explicitly citizens:

* Children born to U.S. citizens

* Children born to aliens who are lawfully inside the United States (resident or visitor), with the intention of amicably interacting with its people and obeying its laws